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In the
beginning, the master teaches you, and then finally
you understand that you are Him [the
Reality], and everybody is That. There is
absolutely nothing apart from thoughtless Reality,
so why worry? Nobody is "good" and nobody is "bad".
You have fingers and some are small and some are
big. Which ones are "good" and which ones are
"bad"? All are made of flesh and blood. You may
have a 100 or 50-watt bulb, yet both work with
electricity. Electricity is the common factor. You
all breath air and eat with your mouths, so
everything is common for all. The power that works
through everybody is the same power, that's the
main point.
Everything is a thought. Thought means knowledge
and knowledge is mind. Thought, knowledge and mind
all rise and function within the power of
consciousness. But who are you? You are neither the
mind nor the consciousness. You are Final Reality,
the Source of consciousness.
Everyone chases after illusory things and is
ruthless in the way they live. Everyone and
everything is sustained by breathing, and when it
stops, everything ends. So everyone is focused on
maintaining the breathing, because they don't want
to give up their illusions. If you are sick you
call a doctor right away. You tell him, "Give me
some medicine so that I can continue to breath more
and more." As long as the life force continues, you
are happy. But breathing takes place in a dream.
Everyday you do the same things – you get up
and brush your teeth, eat breakfast, drink tea, go
to work, return home, eat your dinner and go to
sleep. You repeat the same things over and over
again, creating endless duties for yourself. You
say, "I have to do this, I have to do that." But
when you were born, you had no sense of duty. You
didn't even know if you were a boy or a girl. All
these actions and duties are just creations of the
mind, dream creations. To discover who you are, you
must first find out what you are not. You are not
the mind and its thoughts. The mind and its
thoughts are constantly changing, so how can you be
these? You never change! The power in you as a baby
is the same power in you as an adult. It is the
very same power working through you now.
The problem is that you do so many things without
knowing your true Self. So people go to the
realised beings [jnanis] because they want
to know who they really are. The realised being
tells them, "Before you try to understand this
world, you must first know your Self." When you
travel around the world you need to carry a
passport or identity card with you at all times.
It's your validity card. But that validity card
which is stamped each time you visit a new a
country is not real. You don't need a passport to
be the Reality. You are already That, so wherever
you go, all is okay. But you say, "I'm so many
years old and live in America." The fact is that
you [as individual] don't exist and your
identity card is a fraud. Only the master can say
that you are an impostor. Everyone else is mad and
foolish. You need to think about these things to be
free from the illusions you are living in. You have
the discriminative power [the intellect] to
know what you are not.
The human being is always running after money. If
you give money to a dog, will he care about it? It
is only man who cares for pieces of paper. All the
other creatures just want something to eat. Through
ignorance you have become so small, even smaller
than a dog. You run after money and hoard it even
though you cannot eat it, and you never give it to
others. You are just like a dog in a kennel. It
doesn't eat and it won't allow the other dogs to
eat. You'll never give a cent to anyone unless you
want something from them. So you are just like a
dog in a kennel, hoarding and barking at anyone who
comes near. Reality never eats and never wants
anything. It is knowledge that wants to eat more
and more. Knowledge wants money and so many other
things. When you sleep, you don't want anything for
eight hours, but when you wake up you want so many
things. What I want to say is that you don't need
anything to be as you are, the Reality. It is the
body that has so many needs, not you.
[At this point a man came into the room and
began asking questions.]
Question : I have been living in Bombay
for twenty years and have never heard about you. I
think only the lucky ones know about you.
Ranjit : I don't advertise myself because I
don't exist.
Question : You remind me of Krishnamurti and
for a moment I was taken aback.
Ranjit : Yes, people say that we have a
similar face, but I have never seen him.
Question : Maybe he has seen you?
Ranjit : Many people have come to see me,
but I don't remember them all. Some people agree
with you about the resemblance.
Question : Yes, yes, but the Atman
[Soul] is still always the same.
Ranjit : The Atman is the same, but is also
not true. Only Reality is true.
Question : But when one dies the Ruh
[Atman] disappears.
Ranjit : Yes, Atman returns to the
Source.
Question : What is the exact meaning of
Atman?
Ranjit : Atman means "Soul", and Ruh is a
wish or a thought.
Question : Doesn't Ruh mean "Soul power" or
Ruhani Tagnat?
Ranjit : Ruh is not the Final Reality.
Ruhani Tagnat is the power of knowledge, and
knowledge itself is not true. The muslims says that
you can never know Allah, but they don't really
understand the true meaning in it. When you [as
a separate individual] seem to exist, Allah
cannot be. When you let the "I" disappear, Allah
appears.
Question : Allah is the creator and we are
his creatures.
Ranjit : No, we are not creatures. The power
in you is the same power in the creator. You create
many things, but you don't understand that it is
your own creation. When you dream, who creates the
dream? It is you. By thinking you create so many
things. So he who created the false is also false.
While you sleep, who creates the dream?
Question : The subconscious.
Ranjit : The subconscious is just a thought.
So thought creates the dream and thought itself is
false. Thought cannot be true and therefore the
world itself is an illusion.
Question : When the ancient rishis
[sages] said that "All is an illusion", the
whole of India started going inwards. As a result,
India is economically backward compared to the
West, which has developed outwardly.
Ranjit : Because they [the West] are
in the illusion [maya]. They are always in
the illusion because they don't know that it is the
power of the Soul in them who has created the
world. Why is it called Atman? Because you think
you are the body. When you leave the body, Atman
becomes one with Reality [Brahman]. So in
fact, you are the creator. You have created so many
things. Who has created all these contrivances?
Nowadays, many foreigners come to India because
they want to develop inwardly. They are tired of
outer development. After the Second World War they
realised that happiness lies in knowing your Self
and not in the material world. In 1926, my master
published a book called Golden Day, which is
about the same subject that we are talking about
now. At that time, nobody in the West wanted to
read about inner development, but today many people
come here to understand. The outside world appears
to be true while you are living, but what happens
to it when you leave your body? It has no existence
at all. Saints say that the world is false and
encourage people to move over to the side of
Reality. When you know your Self, you will realise
That which is unique and all-pervading. So, you
must dive deep within your Self, otherwise you will
remain a foreigner to your own Self, no matter
which country you are from.
Question : Is there such a place as
hell?
Ranjit : Hell is here. When you say "I am
the body" you are in hell. When you understand you
are not the body, then you are in heaven. Heaven is
not in the sky. Heaven is within you. Heaven rises
from you. If you don't take birth, then where is
the world? You may have a large sum of money in the
bank, but what is the use of it after you leave
your body?
Question : In the Bible it says that
it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the
kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to pass
through the eye of a needle.
Ranjit : Rich people cannot accept this
because they don't know that the world is unreal.
If you understand that the world is an illusion
then you can understand who God is. You are Him,
but you don't understand this, so you say that "He
is in heaven and I am in hell."
Question : Which part of Islam do you not
agree with?
Ranjit : I agree with them when they say,
"God is only One." Kabir says,"You are Allah and
only Allah." So one should know Oneness, the
Reality. It is said, "United we stand, divided we
fall." You are the Reality, so you never fall and
never die. Who dies? Birth and death are both an
illusion.
Question : I lost both my mother and father.
How can I regard them as an illusion?
Ranjit : They have gone because they never
existed. Where have they gone? Tell me. You have
put their bodies in the earth.
Question : So
they merged with the five elements?
Ranjit : Even the five elements don't exist.
In a dream you see many things, but do they exist?
In the same manner, this world doesn't exist. Where
are your mother and father? They have no entity
now. They came, took birth and a name was given to
them. So you became their son and they became your
parents. But in fact, nothing is there and no
connection exists. Nobody can go with anybody.
Everybody wants to live and nobody wants to
die.
Question : The life in this world is a sport
and pastime and real life is yet to come.
Ranjit : Yes, yes. "Real life is yet to
come" means you should understand what Reality is.
So I say the world is fun and fair, nothing
else.
Question : So you shouldn't take it
seriously?
Ranjit : No, since it doesn't exist. When it
is not, then what is there to take seriously or not
to take seriously? True is the Reality and That is
your Self.
Question : But it takes time to come to that
understanding. How can you look at the cricket bat
and say that it's not true? You may take the bat
and hit my head with it. It's very real!
Ranjit : No, it's not real.
Question : But I can't say that it's an
illusion. They give the example of the master who
said the same thing and finally the disciple beat
him. He then ask the master, "Do you still believe
that the world is an illusion?" Still the master
replied, "Yes".
Ranjit : This beating is also an illusion,
so why should you worry? Master doesn't worry. If
someone calls you a fool, say "I am a double fool."
When I was in America they asked me if I too was an
illusion. I told them that I was a first class
illusion. First class means "grand illusion". What
I say is all wrong, but for whom I speak is the
Truth.
Question : But you are speaking to our Atman
[Self]? To whom are you
speaking?
Ranjit
: To nobody, because nothing is there. All is
an illusion, so what is there to do? The speaker
and the listener are both false. If you arrive at
this understanding, then you become realised.
Question : Then what is the opposite of
illusion?
Ranjit : That is your Self without any
"self", without any "you".
Question : But when the self is also an
illusion...
Ranjit : Reality has nothing to do with all
these questions. It's just like a screen on which
pictures appear. Reality is not touched by any of
these pictures. That's why we say that whatever
comes and goes is a dream. Nobody can take the
world with them when they die. At the time of
death, the dream ends. Suppose you dream that you
are a saint, but when you wake up, where has the
dream gone? Try to understand. If the illusion is
unreal, then the one who understands this is
Reality Himself. You become Him, without the sense
of being an entity. So, only Final Reality remains
without anything else.
Question : When we study all this and think
this way, the result is that it has put India fifty
years behind the West.
Ranjit : Let it be. When you know that it is
only a dream, then what is the meaning of "fifty
years"? Time is an illusion, so "fifty years" is
meaningless. The concepts of "behind" and "forward"
are also only unreal concepts of your mind.
Question : In the Olympics, India has won
nothing. We don't receive any recognition
Ranjit : Nehru wanted to put India in the
best place and he tried everything to succeed. But
today he no longer exists, so what remains of his
efforts?
Question : His statue is there.
Ranjit : What is the meaning of a statue? A
statue can't do anything.
Question: Every year we celebrate his
birthday.
Ranjit: There is no harm in honouring him,
but it is of no use whatsoever. What does he get by
honouring him? Where is he now?
Question : Okay, but the memory that I have
of him is not an illusion.
Ranjit : A memory has to be an illusion. A
memory is only knowledge.
Question : If I pinch myself I feel pain and
this pain is real to me.
Ranjit : Pain is not real.
Question : It is true that I can't show you
the pain, but I can feel it.
Ranjit : Pain happens to the body, not to
you. Suppose you are operated on and you are in
pain. You ask for medication to sleep. In sleep,
everything goes away, and when you awake again you
say, "Aww!" So the pain is nothing but the mind
being touched by the body.
Question : But it's real to the person who
feels it.
Ranjit : You don't follow what I am saying.
In a dream somebody slaps you on the face. You feel
the pain of the slap in the dream. You wake up and
there is only a pillow next to your face. So how
did you get slapped and who felt it? Do you follow?
The pain that you felt in the dream is not real. It
is the same for the world. The world does not
exist, because it is nothing but a long dream. When
you wake up the picture continues, just like an
image on a TV screen. When you turn it off, the
picture vanishes. In the same manner, when you die
all the pictures disappear, and when you take
another birth they reappear. That is all that
happens.
All that you need to understand is this. It is not
a simple thing, but if you listen and accept what
the master says, it can happen in a second. On the
other hand, people seek Reality but they lack the
ability to grasp what the master says. The master
says, "You are Him and there is absolutely nothing
else to gain or understand. Come with Me, nothing
else is required. No matter where you are, you are
always Reality. You are everywhere. There is
nothing that exists apart from you. Your Self is
everywhere and anywhere."
Question : Everybody wants a short cut to
Reality. Is the idea of shaktipat [transmission
of spiritual energy] possible? It is said that
Swami Vivekananda became great overnight through
the shaktipat of Swami Ramakrishna.
Ranjit : I don't believe in shaktipat. You
must listen to the master. Ignorance has come by
hearing, therefore you must listen to a realised
being and then it is possible. By hearing ignorance
has come up, and by hearing it vanishes. How can
shaktipat help? If I put my hand on someone's head,
can he know anything? For example, suppose a boy is
running and another boy doesn't want to run. Will
putting your hand on his head make him run? How can
this give his mind and body energy to make him
run?
Question : What I mean is the transfer of
spiritual energy from the chakras [energy
centres] to another person.
Ranjit : No, that cannot be done. When the
master guides you, and if you grasp what He says
and put it into practice, then yes you can get the
understanding.
Question : Then what do you make of what
these swamis said?
Ranjit : I am
not saying that they are not great. What they say
is their business. I just don't agree with this
concept.
Question : I agree that by hearing one can
see the Light. But do we have enough time? In this
rat race of a world, do we have the time to become
enlightened? There is only twenty four hours in a
day. I believe that Swami Vivekananda wouldn't
lie.
Ranjit : I don't say anybody lied. I already
told you that what I say is false and doesn't
exist, but for whom I speak, He is true. That's the
meaning in it. Right or wrong I don't criticise
anyone. I don't care what others say. I know what
my master has told me and I have experienced That.
A young boy doesn't have to learn his mother
tongue, because he hears it from his parents. It
happens automatically. Other languages he must
learn. When you were born you didn't know anything
about ignorance or knowledge. The child gets
impressions on his mind from what he hears and then
he understands. So impressions are received and the
mind replies. Then he speaks. Follow me? Same way
here also. Ignorance has risen from hearing and it
can only go by hearing. The true meaning of
shaktipat is when the master speaks and the
disciple listens and takes it to heart. Then the
disciple becomes a master himself. If he is
attentive and has a clear-cut understanding, then
why not? You are He.
Question : I am That!
Ranjit : Yes. When the ego doesn't remain,
the only Reality is there. But "I" and "That" are
both wrong. They are only words and you have to go
beyond words. Words arise from That, from their
Source. Reality is beyond words.
Question : People always speaks of Reality,
but nobody explains what It is.
Ranjit : Reality is Reality. How can you say
what It is? When you say something about Reality
you are in a dream. How can a person who is
sleeping know who he is? This world is the
creator's dream. The creator's creation is also a
dream. The creator himself is also unreal.
Question : Dreams do have significance.
Ranjit : A dream is always a dream no matter
who dreams it. The realised being understands that
it is all a dream and not real. That is the
difference.
[The phone rings and Maharaj answers
it.]
Question : You just talked to someone on
the phone. Is that real or an illusion?
Ranjit : It's an illusion.
Question : But you talked on the phone!
Ranjit : While I am living I have to talk. A
dead man cannot talk. As long as the body is
living, he lives in knowledge [jnana] and
Final Reality [Vijnana]. But in fact, the
realised being doesn't do anything. He understands
that when he talks, he doesn't talk. He sleeps but
he doesn't sleep. He has this understanding.
Nothing exists, but you say something is there.
What you think exists is only knowledge.
Question : In darkness we see a rope and say
it is a snake.
Ranjit
: Yes, that is ignorance. Even at the moment
you say it's snake, it is still a rope. Due to
ignorance or darkness, you say what is not true.
You say that the world is real and not an illusion.
By the Grace of the master you come to the
understanding that nothing is real, and if you
accept what the master says, then the world becomes
nothing.
Question : But is thought material or
immaterial?
Ranjit : It doesn't exist! It has no real
existence of it's own. Many thoughts have come, but
where are they now? Do you follow? They come and
they go. Guests come and go, but the host always
remains.
Question : People emphasise the higher
Reality or Truth...
Ranjit :
Reality is Truth. Truth is not something that the
mind can perceive. In a dream you do many things,
but can you say that it is true or the Truth?
Suppose you kill someone in a dream, and on waking
up you go to the police station and say, "I have
killed someone." They put handcuffs on you, but
when you tell them it happened in a dream, they
immediately let you go.
Question : But why does one dream of
violence?
Ranjit :
There is no question of why for that which never
existed. This question doesn't arise. First try to
understand the point that I am trying to make. But
if you would rather argue, we can argue, I don't
mind.
Question : I am no arguing with you, I am
just trying to clear my doubts.
Ranjit : Yes, yes I understand. I am trying
to make things clear. So, when you have doubts it
means the ego is there. The one who has doubts is
not Reality, it is the ego. Reality never doubts
and is never concerned. It is the ego which is
concerned with everything. You are always Reality,
whether you doubt It or not. So as you don't know
this, you have to ask questions. But try to
understand the true meaning. I always say that I
talk like a loud speaker: if you listen or don't
listen, it's your choice.
Question : That is why there are many
westerners here, they have a strong thirst for
spiritual knowledge.
Ranjit : Why is that?
Question
: Because in their previous births they might
have been in India.
Ranjit : No, no, forget about previous
lives! How can it be? This life is unreal, so how
can any other life be real? When you take birth you
become the smallest creature. It is ego which takes
birth. Your body does not return after death. What
good have you done with this body anyway? You all
tell lies, saying "I am so-and-so", and your
signature is a forgery. Because of all this you
have been put in prison for many years. Only in
this human form can you contemplate the Real. But
once you forget your real Self, the world appears
real to you. Heaven is lost and you live in hell!
"Hell" means that you live in fear by becoming the
smallest creature. Always say, "I am Reality and
not this person." You may be a bad or pious person,
yet you are eternally Him. Your fear is only for
that which is not. That is ignorance. How can
nothing touch nothing? Yet you feel that nothing is
touching you, and that is due to ignorance. In
truth, nothing can ever touch or affect you. If you
understand this, then you are a realised being.
Question : Can you tell me about
sthitaprajna [one who firmly abides in the
state of Self-knowledge] which is mentioned in
the Bhagavad Gîta?
Ranjit : Sthitaprajna is when one
understands that everybody is my Self. It is when
you live in That and remain silent, knowing that
"All is my Self."
Question : So if one is fearless, one can
reach that state?
Ranjit : Yes, when you are fearless you are
firmly established in That.
Question : Like Bhagat Singh [historical
patriot] who was sentenced to death. He
accepted his death as a sacrifice to his
nation.
Ranjit : He didn't know anything apart from
his nation. All that he did was fight and die for
his country. You can't do it, so you praise him. Do
you follow? A realised being doesn't praise him.
What is there to fight for? What dies? It is only
the body which fights and dies. Reality never dies
and is always free.
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